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20091117-11 "The Garden of Forking Paths" (Group 2)

Page history last edited by kmdixon@... 14 years, 5 months ago

Summary:

 

Today, we continued our discussion of Hedda Gabler by trying to characterize Hedda as a hero, coward, or villian. We said that she was a coward because she was afraid of what others thought of her and because she took the easy way out by killing herself. We decided that she was also villainous, by considering how she displayed traits that showed her manipulation of others, her tendency to instigate (including going so far as persuading Lovborg to drink again), and her general sabotage of others in the story. However, despite the negative characteristics Hedda was reknowned for, we also decided that she did display a few heroic traits. These being that she used metis successfully to manipulate others and when she kills herself, she is ultimately protesting society’s view on a woman's role in that time period, for she does not do the normal thing which women are supposed to do within the society she is living in.

Following our discussions on Hedda, we then discussed the question "Do heroes do what they're supposed to do?" Some examples of heroes who do not do what they are supposed to do are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Jesus, Martin Luther, the American revolutionaries, and Robin Hood. We determined that these people are heroes because they resist or rebuke society in order to further their causes, ultimately preforming the heroic task. On the other hand, we also discussed various examples of heroes who actually do what they are supposed to according to society, but they are deemed heroes because the tasks that are required of them are often difficult and dangerous, however these heroes persevere in order to overcome these obstacles.  Some examples we chose were the Army, firefighters, missionaries, Rama, and Jesus.

 

Word Count - 291

 

Passages:

1) "I foresee that man will resign himself each day to more atrocious undertakings; soon there will be no one but warriors and brigands; I give them this counsel: The author of an atrocious undertaking ought to imagine that he has already accomplished it, ought to impose upon himself a future as irrevocable as the past." 

 

(Explanation 1)  Before Yu Tsun gets to Albert's, and has the swarming sensation there, he realizes that he has to pretend that he has already committed the awful deed of murder and that he is living in the future already.  

 

2) "We descendants of Ts'ui Pen,' I replied, 'continue to curse that monk.  Their publication was senseless.  The book is an indeterminate heap of contradictory drafts.  I examined it once: in the third chapter the hero dies, in the fourth he is alive."

 

(Explanation 2)  Yu Tsun and all of the other descendants of Ts'ui Pen all wish that Pen's book was never published for they believe that it does not make any sense because it is a never ending story.

 

3) "Before unearthing this letter, I had questioned myself about the ways in which a book can be infinite.  I could think of nothing other than a cyclic volume, a circular one.  A book whose last page was identical with the first, a book which had the possibility of continuing indefinitely.  I remembered too that night which is at the middle of the Thousand and One Nights when Scheherazade (through a magical oversight of the copyist) begins to relate word for word the story of the Thousand and One Nights, establishing the word for word the story of the Thousand and One Nights, establishing the risk of coming once again to the night when she must repeat it, and thus on to infinity.  I imagined as well a Platonic, hereditary work, transmitted from father to son, in which each new individual adds a chapter or corrects with pious care the pages of his elders."

 

(Explanation 3)  It was said that Albert was the first to establish that Ts'ui Pen's book was the same thing as his famed labyrinth, for the book was ultimately a maze that went on to infinity.  This passage that Albert says Yu Tsun, are his ideas on how a book can legitimately be infinitely long.

 

 

 

Terms: 

 

We didn't discuss a lot of new terms this class, however we did discuss what we typically thought of when we are looking at books in the detective section of a bookstore or library.

 

Detective Story:

 

Starts with a Mystery- reader is then presented with Clues-that lead up to a big Reveal

 

 

Comments (3)

schhoun@... said

at 1:12 pm on Nov 17, 2009

We talked about how Hedda is considered a hero, coward, and instigator / villain.

Hero? => break down barriers, does the beautiful thin (Hedda's logic), gets Lovborg to challenge society, goes against society, feminist, protest

Coward? => afraid of what others think, scandal, kills herself - takes easy way out

Instigator/Villian => manipulative, metis, sabotage others, gets Lovborg drinking again, tells L @ what Thea said, gives L the gun

We also talked about how heroes do what they are supposed to do.

Martin Luther King, Ghandhi, Christ, Martin Luther, Gallileo, American Revolutionaries, Robin Hood, Confederacy > Disobedience

People who do what they are supposed to do and we consider heroes: Jesus, Army, Firefighters, Missionaries, Rama

Hedda:

Loyal - Not so much
Relationship to Gods - N/A
Relationship to Men - controlling
Win? - Yes? No?
Social Status - upper class
Independence - father's influence

The Garden of Forking Paths

Yu Tsun:

Spy for Germany
has a secret
goes to Stephen Albert's home
book and talk about it
Albert getting shot

Detective story - mystery, reveal, clues

Ts'ui Pen-
Neverending story
Book = labyrinth, Albert figures it out

kmdixon@... said

at 9:45 am on Nov 19, 2009

4) "The future already exists," I replied, "but I am your friend. Could I see the letter again?"

Yu Tsun has seen the outcomes of all of his possible futures and realizes that he must kill Albert.

hey ya'll we can only have up to 3 quotes, and i felt that this fourth one was pretty similar to the first one so i took it out, if you feel otherwise, and put it back, that's cool but please just remember that we can only have 3! thanks, katie.

Brian Croxall said

at 2:52 pm on Nov 24, 2009

You had a hard day of notes for last Tuesdays class since I was wrapping up Hedda Gabler and starting Borges. You've chosen an acceptable way to handle this: using the summary to cover our 45-minute conversation about Hedda, and the passages to talk about Borges. (You were right that we didn't really have many new terms in this session of class.)

Unfortunately, the passages you've chosen and--more specifically--how you talk about them make the end result not as effective as it could have otherwise been. There just isn't enough written here to help us see what matters about these passages. The second passage is basically plot summary at the moment, and the first one doesn't clarify how we need to understand Yu Tsun's decision. It needs another 2-3 sentences to make it clear. While you do include the passage about how books can be infinite, you don't give us the example of how Borges's story itself starts to follow what's been happening. If you'd done a better job with these, your summary was setting you up for a much better score.

Still, your summary is good.

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